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The Last Word

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Us 14, Clinton 8, Mississippi 5, Karl Rove 5, America 4, Sanford 4, Kennedy 4, Advair 4, South Carolina 4, Bjorn 3, Elizabeth Colbert Busch 3, Obama 3, Paul Ryan 3, Marco Rubio 3, Barack Obama 3, Steven Colbert 3, United States 3, Garth 3, Aflac 3, Jake 3,
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  MSNBC    The Last Word    News/Business.  (2013) New.  

    February 18, 2013
    7:00 - 8:00pm PST  

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dollars. was it worth it? did you give the right advice? >> i think i did. if you look back at the proposition we faced after 9/11, with respect to saddam hussein we were very concerned about the prospects of terrorists like the 9/11 crowd acquiring weapons of mass destruction, biological weapons they could use on the united states. >> there is no question the media didn't do its job during the run-up to the iraq war. far too often, the press simply accepted these sweeping assertions by the highest officials in the government, without looking for the hard evidence to support it. >> was more concerned about the politics of my decision, rather than what is right, and what is wrong. >> i have prayed to god many times that he would forgive me for sending his children to die in a war that never had to
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happen. was there ever any consideration of apologizing to the american people? >> i mean, apologizing would basically say the decision was a wrong decision. and i don't believe it was a wrong decision. >> one of the questions that the republican party is going to have to ask itself is can they
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say yes to anything? can they say yes to anything? >> well, the short answer is not anything that comes from president obama. >> a chain of fierce politicking is under way. >> leaks don't happen in washington by accident. >> there is no leadership on the other side of the aisle. >> the president really doesn't want immigration reform. >> with the president in the republican's cross hairs over immigration. >> the obama plan, a backup plan. >> with the level of hostility from the president, i think it is very hard to imagine that his bill is going to pass the house. >> the president has never really had great luck in congress. >> if the president proposes legislation, do you think it will fail? >> of course, of course it will. >> with no other explanation given? >> of course it will. >> congress has not been very productive in the last couple of terms. >> they do wait until the last couple of minutes. >> the so-called sequester.
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the blame game is under way. >> the president who designed the sequester. >> everybody is blaming everybody. >> here is my belief, let's take obama care and put it on the table. obama care is destroying health care in the country. >> he needs cameras and likes to be on tv. >> let's don't cut military. >> these cuts are a really bad idea. >> the president has never really had great luck in congress. >> there is no leadership on the other side of the aisle. >> he is really not serious, and therefore no agreement. >> if the president proposes legislation, do you think it will fail? >> of course. >> this is just not cool anymore. >> it is just ridiculous. the obama white house has drafted an immigration proposal which got leaked over the weekend, provoking barack obama first responders, marco rubio staff to issue this less than half-baked press release. the president's bill repeats the
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failures of past legislation. it is half-baked and seriouslily fl -- seriously flawed, a factual proposal of the president's bill would be dead on arrival in congress. so what version of an obama bill would not be dead on arrival in congress? >> an obama plan led and driven by obama, in this atmosphere with the level of hostility towards the president and the way he goads the hostility, i think it is very hard to imagine his bill will pass the house. >> the president obviously has some thoughts about immigration reform which he has drafted and gotten his agencies to comment on. if the president proposes legislation do you think it will fail? >> of course. of course it will. >> steve kornacki, in the "we hate obama world" of republican congressional politics, i guess
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it does make sense to me if the president gets his name on something those guys will try to kill it. so why the leak of an obama plan? >> yeah, well, first of all i think this is something that is worth keeping in mind through all the big policy debates coming up. for instance, look at sequester and potentially another grand bargain where obama says he wants to balance the approach, more tax revenue and the republican response to that is always okay, now be specific, put a plan forward. this is what is going to happen if obama puts a plan forward on the entitlements and everything else. they're going to immediately reject it. that said, i think there is a dance here. it is a really messed up, screwed up dance that will ultimately get us to a kind of immigration reform. basically, if the psychology of the republican party, can't be obama-led or obama's bill, it can't be obama leading the republicans around. it could be obama putting the plan out, republicans talking about how it is tyranny, king
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obama, everything they're doing now. eventually, maybe a week or month from now, whatever it is, they come back with something very similar to the framework that obama is laying out right now. but the republicans get to convince everybody they laid it out. it is essential in the republican world that it is seen arre as something they forced on obama and fought him. >> can they do that now that there is an obama plan out there? >> they can do that. i agree they don't like him -- >> how long did it conclude take you to conclude the particular point? >> that is why i'm here, the big ideas, it goes to the critics and haters, critics may disagree for a reason, usually just a point or alternative, haters are just going to hate. and what we have in the republican caucus, a dominate hater strain.
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there are not a lot of people that want to do anything. that is what chuck hagel has in common, you could be the most conservative senator, john mccain's pick for the cabinet. as soon as you get a little bit of obama on you they can't work with you. and it is their problem, a lot of us have to deal with it but it is fundamentally a failure of the republican party and it is why they're going to continue to lose elections in and perhaps past the obama era. >> paul ryan wanted a piece of this anti-immigration obama stuff, so let's listen to him. >> leaking it out does set things in the wrong direction. the things we have to ask ourselves, particularly with the white house is president obama looking for a bipartisan law? and without addressing future flow, by giving advantage who cut in front of line for immigrants who came here legally, not dealing with border security adequately, that tells
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us he is looking for a bipartisan advantage, and not a solution. >> steve, it tells us it is not actually a complete legislative proposal. >> it is a starting point, and again, one of the republican's favorite lines in attacking it. they switch back and forth. a favorite line against obama, is that he has not been specific. he said things that sound good, but never puts the proposal out first. why won't the president lead or step forward? you could say if the lead came from the white house, it is a little weird it leaked. if it comes from the white house, this is the president taking the initiative here and saying here are the basic principles that i will insist on. instead of taking it and saying okay, this is where we disagree, this is tyranny, the white house only interested in pleasing the base. it shows that the argument will work back, as far as the republicans are concerned, it
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does go back ward. >> i am sick of paul ryan, people saying that we don't know. we had the dream act, it had the majority of senators behind it. it was filibusters by people like rand and we have the record, we know it was about governing. not just politicking. and not just a lie, so they make it look like it was all a machination, they have had support since 2010. >> it is not just me who thought that the response was half baked. let's listen to george will on this. >> were you struck on how over the top marco rubio's response was to this? i mean it was a draft, the white house was not putting it out. he came out blazing on this. >> i would like to see the details on what he finds in it that is offensive or left out or that is important to add to it. in that sense, it strikes me as
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this may tell us something about the many conflicting pressures on marco rubio, he has been on the cover of time, called the savior of the republican party. i am sure he has heard from some in the republican party that don't want to be saved with the kind of immigration reform he has in mind. >> i think it does show the pressure, the nature of it, oh, we have to get something out right away. >> rubio is in a weird position, he has been given leeway by some of the republicans, made the rounds on the cable shows. he got positive response, saying we do need to move in a direction of immigration reform, you are the guy to deliver this. but at the same time, you have enormous resistance, a number of republican house members who will probably never vote against it. who are going to demagogue it, and again, obama dictating terms
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to rubio. >> you can't have the president dictating. >> well, it is grandstanding to the base. he can't be seen as cooperating with obama, he has to be seen as forcing obama, and lindsey graham, that is the same thing -- >> i have been waiting for this one, this one i have been waiting for since the day obama care passed. the proposals now to cut obama care. let's listen to what lindsey graham said? let's take obama care and put it on the table, if you want to look at 10.2 trillion savings in the next decade, let's look at obama care. >> ari, when budget strains come along, there is always a look at medicare, democrats have done cost savings over the years, medicaid-cut cost savings. why wouldn't they also look at obama care which actually benefits the population with more resources than the medicaid population? >> well, i think the main reason
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is that it will be seen as obama cost saving, rather than increasing device. you look at lindsey graham, how is he getting to work? is he taking a delorean, did he come to work three years ago? this guy is living in the past. they have gone nowhere. again, i don't mean to be so negative and worked up tonight. but we are just watching something frozen in time, full of amber and anger. it may be the first time clinton picked up seats, obama may be on the way to that. this may be good for democrats in return. it is not good for the country to be so frozen and reflexively anti-obama. >> steve kornacki, and ari melber. coming up, steve colbert's
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sister is running for congress in south carolina. and in the rewrite tonight, the most memorable, quotable state-of-the-union address in history. and just how it affected me. that is coming up. at tyco integrated security, we consider ourselves business optimizers. how? by building custom security solutions that integrate video, access control, fire and intrusion protection. all backed up with world-class monitoring centers, thousands of qualified technicians, and a personal passion to help protect your business. when your business is optimized like that, there's no stopping you. we are tyco integrated security. and we are sharper. to prove febreze can keep this car fresh, we loaded it with fast food, sweaty hockey gear, and a smelly dog cage. and parked it at a mall. in texas.
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. i loved president obama's first inaugural address and his second, i was on the capitol grounds for both of those speeches. but as i sit here right now, i can't quote a single line from either of them. but i can quote an inaugural address from 50 years ago. and so can you. and there is a stunning new version now of president kennedy's inaugural address. we're going to show it to you later. you have to see this re-worked, reinterpreted version of this.
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it is an amazing new video coming up.
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tonight, we know which lecture agency hillary clinton has signed up with, so that she can do her part in the family business, speaking for money. she joined the oldest of them all, the harry walker agency founded by harry walker in 1946, in new york city and run by his family ever since. it is the same agency that processes the lecture fees for bill clinton, full disclosure note, they have processed
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lectures for me over the years, all of which now go to the kind fund. we also know tonight just how much karl rove hates president obama. i mean, hates him. rove is now employing the old political trick of making his hatred not seem partisan by praising a democrat in his attacks on the president. >> i would like to try my hand at answering your first question, though. would hillary have made a better president? and i think the answer -- >> keep it brief. >> yeah, i'll keep it brief. first of all, yeah, i think so. she would have had a necessary naive view of the world. she is more hard-headed. we've seen that when she was secretary of state. she said you can't just say that about libya, you have to do something about libya. secondly, i think she would have had the recognition you have to get engaged, you can't simply out-source it to congress. third, she would have been more experienced, was first lady for
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eight years and was actively involved in the policy side of the white house. she would have been more bipartisan. you look at the record in the senate. she went out of her way, in part because of armed services but in part because of her interest to have bipartisan efforts across the aisles on big issues. >> joining me now, ana-marie cox. and currently working on a book about the tenure of secretary of state, ana-marie, karl rove has an amazing awe and respect, suddenly for hillary clinton. awe, as far as i can tell, is a device for attacking the president. >> yes, i think that is totally the case. i am not sure if my eyes can roll back far enough in my head to show the eye-rolling -- at this. and it is just to laugh at this. i mean, basically, you know he imbedded all of these criticisms of obama in his praise of
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hillary, the naivete, it is so shocking, i am surprised the audience didn't laugh out loud. even if you're on the bipartisan side of rove, it is a blatant ploy. i doubt if she runs he will say this then. he doesn't mind doing the double speak and going back on his word. >> i love the bit about her being actively involved in white house policy when she was first lady. that of course, became the the health care. >> i think she would have surrounded herself with a broader range of people. the clintons strike me as
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collectors of people. they're always collecting interesting people and keep them in their orbit. and it is not just sort of i'm surrounded by my chicago pals who think i'm the greatest thing, all i have to do is make another speech. i know that bill felt she was more qualified. hillary clinton is the most qualified person to seek the presidency. in 39 years. now how he came up with 39 years is beyond me. and look, bill, don't you understand that that means you are saying she is more qualified than you are. >> johnathan allen, i love the idea of more qualified people and broader range of people when bill clinton, when he used that model he chose one of his elementary school classmates as white house chief of staff in the first go-around. i am sorry i'm having an ana-marie's problem of keeping a straight face. is this a technique we should
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expect more later? when will he turn against hillary clinton? as she starts to make moves towards the presidency? >> yeah, pull out your wall calendar on that one. karl rove's job is to divide the democratic party. that is clearly the role here. hillary clinton has approval ratings that are sky high right now. one reason for that is at the end of the 2008 campaign, another cable station became sort of a fan of hillary clinton's as she was running against barack obama, he being the hated one. she being the suddenly acceptable democrat. look, you would rather attach yourself if you're karl rove, to somebody popular than somebody who is not. a lot of republicans in researching this book in doing interviews say they like hillary clinton a lot better than barack obama, of course that is intended as part as praise for her. but also a slam towards him, this is not new. >> and ana-marie, the point is
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not to attack hillary clinton. it is just that rove is using her as this convenient device. and this thing is, he need not reach back to her first lady days, to the days where you can say no, no, no, that is not where you have examples. it would be in her senate career and the role as secretary of state. if he is going to praise her role as secretary of state, he would in effect be praising president obama. and he can't allow himself to do that. >> that is right, and also i recall there was an upset at this other cable station that shall not be named about her tenure of secretary of state about benghazi. so he is being very disingenuous in his praise, although we can be in ours. she did a fantastic job as secretary of state, ran a campaign that she is proud of. that is notable about her, as well. let's look at who she praises, who she aligned himse eed hersee
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president. that is where her loyalty lies. she wouldn't put up with this kind of stuff from karl rove. she is not putting up with that either. these are crocodile tears. >> let's look at somebody who may run as president of the united states? >> will i or won't i? i do not literally know the answer to the questions, what is the best role for me to play to fix the country. the point is i don't know the answer. i'm not putting a great deal of thought into it. i not foreclosing any opportunity, right now, we've just had an election and have jobs to do. >> jonathan allen, what are the odds? clinton-ryan? >> i think they're one to one. if hillary clinton runs, we all thought she was the inevitable
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candidate in 2008, and we're proved wrong. but certainly she would start out as a huge frontrunner, nobody else on the democratic side. so really it is a question if paul ryan can get through. i would say james garfield, the only sitting house member ever elected president. >> and jonathan, he is also up against the viewers. the history, doing the television age that the losing vice presidential candidate always goes on to never be president. ana-marie cox, and jonathan allen, thank you very much. coming up, when do you think mississippi ratified the 13th amendment abolishing slavery in this country? send us your guesses on facebook or twitter, the answer coming up. here is a hint. it actually took a movie to get them to do it. and the most love-sick governor of our time, back, running for congress in south
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carolina. and the frontrunner in the democratic party to run against him it steven colbert's sister. we'll preview that race tonight. you're crazy. go faster! go faster! go faster! go faster! no! stop...stop... (mom) i raised my son to be careful... hi, sweetie. hi, mom. (mom) but just to be safe... i got a subaru. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. a hairline fracture to the mandible and contusions to the metacarpus. what do you see? um, i see a duck. be more specific. i see the aflac duck. i see the aflac duck out of work and not making any money. i see him moving in with his parents and selling bootleg dvds out of the back of a van. dude, that's your life. remember, aflac will give him cash to help cover his rent, car payments and keep everything as normal as possible.
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. if i ask you to quote a line from an inaugural address, most of you will quote a line from before you were born. president kennedy's "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for
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your country." i don't know about you, but i can't quote any other line from any inaugural address, not word for word. that amazing speech, the jfk inaugural has been re-interpreted and modernized and we'll show you that version of it latter. and yeah, it is one of your get out your handkerchief kind of things. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average.
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. holy cow, my sister is running to congress. i am not sure, i can support her, she is running as a democrat. leading for the former governor of the trail, mark sanford. see, i'm for family values, and mark, he just seems so steady. >> in the spotlight tonight, south carolina's special election to fill an empty congressional seat, democratic election, elizabeth colbert, sister of steven colbert, will
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finally settle the question of how her family's name should be pronounced. when she wins the democratic primary as she is sure to do after getting the last word in the polls, elizabeth colbert busch will likely face former governor sanford, who is the frontrunner in the republican party. the former governor who lied about hiking the appalachian trail when in fact he was off on a fling in south america with his mistress, was with his girlfriend, with the ad. >> while many have talked, i have fought to do something, cut spending, reduced debt and made government more accountable. more recently, i have experienced how none of us go through life without mistakes. but in their wake we can learn a lot about grace, a god of second chances and be the better for it. in that light, i humbly step forward and ask for your vote.
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i'm mark sanford and approve this message. >> mark sanford's position in the hall of fame is already assured because of this, this 2009 press conference. >> i have been unfaithful to my wife. i developed a relationship with a -- started as a dear, dear friend from argentina. it began very innocently as i suspect these things do. in just a casual e-mail back and forth, in advice on one's life there, and advice here. but here, recently over the last year it developed into something much more than that. >> this is a whole lot more than a simple affair. this is a love story. a forbidden one, a tragic one, but a love story at the end of
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the day. >> ryan grim, if i was writing this movie, i'm just not sure who wins this special election. that was -- that was the greatest press conference in the history of political adultery, and i mean it. because he is the only politician who decided in moment one, in press conference one. what about the truth? what if i just actually tell the truth, and oh, by the way, i'm in love with her and this is very serious stuff? >> you would cast robin williams for that, and it would be one of his 25-minute speeches where he moves everybody. now, i don't know if there is a god of second chances. there is definitely a god of south carolina politics, because he has answered our prayers. we're the ones -- i mean, this is just going to be such a fun race, you have the story of redemption, even have teddy turner's son thrown in this.
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and elizabeth colbert busch, she spells it wrong. >> she will be here this week. we will be sizing her, she will get the last word, bump, this week, so the polls will be different. a tricky thing about this district, sanford's favorability, a 30% favorability, a 53% unfav unfavorability, the trouble is, mitt romney won against obama. so elizabeth colbert busch, with the name, democrat, beside her name is probably worse than having the word "colbert" behind her name. >> she will need all the fundraising prowess of her brother, and all the super pac that can be generated. there is a more republican population, a lot of folks coming from the north, who are
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fiscally conservative, but don't share that evangelical fervor, on the other hand, a lot of them share that forgiveness. >> christianity is all about being forgiven for your sins. >> so we're writing off a lot of votes that we should not. >> i mean, that is the math, john mccain fit in that district, president obama, 42, but mitt romney, 58, barack obama, 40, that seems to me that it makes it a referendum on sanford. if those republican voters there can find him acceptable, then it is his. and if they can't, that would be the only chance for the democrat to win. >> right, with maybe some surreal combination of just grass roots, like energy created by steven colbert that we don't even know exists. it may be a sense of his power, but maybe he has way more on the ground than we can ever imagine.
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there will be buses of colbert backers. >> the colbert, colbert family power. we'll find out about it. ryan grim, thank you for joining us tonight. elizabeth colbert busch will be my guest, "the last word" exclusive later this week. and coming up, the story of how a movie got mississippi to finally ratify the 13th amendment abolishing slavery. every other state had already done it. but mississippi didn't get around to making it official until this month. and in the rewrite tonight, the enduring wisdom of the only inaugural address i can quote, which is probably the only inaugural address you can actually quote word for word or anyone can quote. since most presidential inaugural speeches don't leave us with lines we can actually remember. that is coming up. under stephens. the verizon share everything plan for small business. get a shareable pool of data... got enough joshua trees?
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une . i think barack obama is the greatest political speechmaker of my lifetime. but i can't actually quote any of his lines, not word for word. the only political speech i can quote, the only words i have ever remembered from all the political speeches i have ever heard are from the very first presidential inaugural address that i heard when i was a little boy. and it is very hard for me to hear that speech these days. and i'll tell you why. next in the rewrite. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.
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on january 20th, 1961, my understanding of what was possible in the world changed, changed utterly, a new possibility was born. >> do solemnly swear that you will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states. >> that i will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states. >> and will to the best of your ability. >> and will to the best of my ability. >> preserve and defend the constitution of the united states. >> preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. >> so help you god? >> so help me god. >> the first catholic president. that is what that moment was to me. the breaking of a barrier to my
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future. a catholic could be president. and he was not just catholic. he was boston and he was irish. and all of us boston irish catholic little boys knew in that moment that if we did all of our homework like the nuns told us to, and if we worked really hard and if we were wicked lucky, there was no limit to what we might do. an irish catholic could be president. i know it seems like a small barrier to break to anyone born after the kennedy presidency, but to little boys and girls born to parents and grandparents, told them about job listings in the newspaper that said "no irish need apply," this was the beginning of a limitless possibility. in our hopes and dreams, at least. what followed that breakthrough moment was president kennedy's inaugural address with the most memorable inaugural line in
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history. >> ask not what your country can do for you. ask what you can do for your country. >> like the gettysburg address, it is a remarkably short speech by presidential standards. it took president kennedy just 14 minutes to conclude the speech, including the applause, so as written, i can't watch that speech without crying. it is not a sad speech, but full of hope and well-placed confidence and humility. but it was the knowledge that that presidency lasted only a thousand days that gives the speech the tragic undertone. harvard tweeted a new link of the version of the speech today. it is not a rewrite of kennedy's inaugural address. it is a re-interpretation.
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we'll show you some of it now, to see the full version, go to our website, thelastword.com. if you don't cry at the last sentence, you are not less sensitive than i, it just means you're younger. >> we observed today not a victory of party, but a celebration of freedom. symbolizing an end as well as a beginning. signifying renewal as well as change. for i have sworn before you an ---almighty god, the world is very different now. >> for man holds in his mortal
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hands the power to abolish all forms against human life. >> the issues are still around the globe, the belief that the rights of man come not from the generousty of the state, but from the hand of god, we dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. >> let the word go forth from this time and place to friend and foe alike that the torch is passed to a new generation of americans, born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our heritage. >> and unwilling to witness to undo the slow rights to which we are committed today at home and around the world. >> let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any
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foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty. >> this much we pledge, and more. >> but this peaceful revolution of hope cannot become the prey of hostile powers. let all of our neighbors know that we shall join with them to oppo oppose oppression. >> and let them know this country intends to remain the master of its own house. >> so let's remember that on both sides, civility is not a sign of weakness. >> and sincerity is always subject to proof. >> let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate. >> let both sides explore what problems unite us, instead of belaboring those problems which divide us. >> let both sides for the first time formulate serious and precise proposals for the inspection and control of arms. >> and bring the absolute power to destroy other nations.
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under the absolute control of all nations. >> let both sides seek to invoke the wonders of science. together, let's explore the stars. >> conquer the deserts, encourage the arts and commerce. >> let both sides unite to heed in all corners of the earth the command of isaiah. to undo the heavy burdens and let the oppressed go free. >> the graves of young americans who answered the call to service are around the globe. >> now the trumpet calls again, not as arms, not as a call to battle. but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle. >> year in, year out, rejoicing
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in hope, against the struggle and the common enemies of man, tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself. >> can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance. north, south, east and west, that can assure a more fruitful life for all man kind. will you join in that historic effort? >> in the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in maximum danger. i do not shrank from this responsibility, i welcome it. i do not believe any place would exchange itself with any generation. >> the faith which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it, and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. >> and so my fellow americans,
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ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country. >> my fellow citizens of the world, ask not what america will do for you. but what together we can do for the freedom of man. >> finally, whether you are citizens of america or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength, and sacrifice which we ask of you. >> with a good conscience, only sure reward with history the final judge of our deeds. let us go forth to lead the land we love. >> ask for his blessing and his help. but knowing that here on earth god's work must truly be our own.
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but alka seltzer plus severe sinus does it treats your worst sinus symptoms, plus that annoying cough. [ breathes deeply ] ♪ oh, what a relief it is! [ angry gibberish ]
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. we need two yes's, four yes's and one more abstension, and the amendment will past. >> you have night and day, perfectly good hours, get the hell out of here and get them. >> yes, but how? >> i am the president of the united states of america. clothed in i mmense power, you
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will procure me these votes. >> that count daniel day-lewis's sure to be oscar winner portrayal, lincoln's pushing for the passage of the amendment abolishing slavery. it had to be approved by 3/4 of the states, something that mississippi didn't get around to. a person in mississippi went to see the movie, and wondered about mississippi's role in ratifying the amendment, only to discover they had not officially ratified the amendment abolishing slavery. the two men who got mississippi to move to the right, joining me. dr. buttra, you went to the movie, as i understand it. you came out wondering what was mississippi's role in ratifying
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the 13th amendment. and what did you discover? >> i discovered much to my surprise that o-- well, the firt surprise was that mississippi had not actually ratified it. the legislature had not ratified it until 1995. which was you know a century and a quarter after the bill became law. but i was glad they ratified it. but then, much to my surprise i found out that even then it was not official, because that information had not been transmitted to the national archives. so in point of fact, we still were not on the books as having ratified the 13th amendment in abolishing slavery. >> and ken sullivan, how did you get involved? >> did batra approached me in the hallway and had a question one morning and asked me about this amendment and if i knew it had never been ratified by mississippi. and i said, well, i believe it
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was ratified in 1995. i was a senior in high school here in mississippi. and i remembered a lot of coverage on that on the news at that time. and so he said well why don't you look into it and see what you can find. and so i began to do some research, and actually found the same thing that he had. and i called the national archives, read the constitution and saw what it took in the constitution to get an amendment ratified. had a lot of help from rod ralss who works at the national archive, and through that information i found out we had not filed it. and then i went to our state capitol and retrieved a copy of the 1995 legislation where the last paragraph read, specifically as the constitution and how to proceed in ratifying an amendment. and it